Re: Need info on Voxton guitar

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: : : Over the last coupla days, I've sent emails to everyone in this thread, and to a bunch of people who know Vox Guitar information. And, I posted a new thread at the bulletin board at www.voxtalks.com : : In the interest of hopefully getting some new replies here, as well as there, I'm going to cut and paste and keep both updated with each other's information. : : So, the link to the Voxtalks thread: : : http://www.voxtalks.com/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=VT2&Post=16&Idle=0&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session= : : And everything so far: : : Voxton Guitars : : (Thomas Organ) : : everheardofem? : : I have what.. I think.. may be, might sort of be a Vox guitar -- it's a Voxton. : : I searched the net for "Voxton" (nope, it's not "VoxtRon" on the headstock) and : : there's only one or two pieces of information on the web, anyway, - mostly in a : : thread by someone else seeking information, on a different bulletin board (link below). : : Here's all I know so far, I hope someone reading this will be able to share more! : : I'm sure most people reading this know a company in Sepulveda CA, Thomas Organ, : : sold Vox products and licensed the name in the U.S. Voxton's were made in Japan for : : Thomas Organ -- possibly shortly after Thomas Organ merged, or was bought by, : : another company, Royston. : : ( http://www.guitarsite.com/discussion/messages/3889.shtml ) : : (After reading the abbreviated history of Vox on their website, I got the impression : : that all kinds of things were going on under the name Vox in the U.S.) : : Also from that link -- these types of Voxton guitars were mentioned: : : - two semi-hollow-bodies, one called "Model X-215", numbered 19700792, with an : : inside label that reads, "Voxton / Product of Thomas Organ Co., Sepulveda, Calif." : : - a SG-shaped Voxtron bass, hollow bodied with f-holes : : - an acoustic : : I guess my own Voxton guitar brings the 'known types' to Four -- it's a Les Paul copy, : : also with a natural blond wood body and a bolt on neck. It doesn't have an arched : : 'top,' like a Gibson Les Paul would, and I don't know if the Super Distortion pickups : : that were in the guitar when I bought it are original or not. The plate that bolts the : : neck on reads, "Made in Japan" "1970032" (one less '0' than above?). : : Things I'm really curious to find out are: : : - are these considered "Vox" guitars? : : - is the '1970' in the serial number when they were made? : : - were they made by a 'known' overseas guitar maker, for Thomas Organ? : : - were they sold in other places besides the U.S.? : : - is it possible that there are only a thousand?, five thousand? Could "Voxton" guitars : : be odball rarities? : : Thanks very much, : : Greg : : (I've sent emails to Vox, Voxshowroom.com and a handful of other people. And -- : : anybody have a copy of some books by a Michael Wright, a writer for Vintage Guitar? : : I thought I'd found his email, but it came back.) : : 02-24-2001 00:35:30 : : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : : everheardofem? (modified 0 times) : : ihor+boyko : : Voxton guitars are featured in probably one of the last Vox catalogs printed around : : 1969-1970. This is the catalog with the orange cover where the Beatles are playing : : through solid state Vox amps with the amp heads turned around. The 1970 in the : : serial # matches the time frame when these would have been made. : : The electrics in the catalog include copies of the ES-330 (X-209), ES-175 (X-215), : : EB2 Bass (X-212), and Les Paul (X-213). There are also several acoustic 6 and 12 : : string Voxton models pictured as well as classic style. : : 02-24-2001 16:03:41 : : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : : everheardofem? (modified 0 times) : : Greg : : Profile | Email : : ihor+boyko -- : : Thanks! I read your reply, then I leaned over to my left and said, "Well Konichi Wa, : : X-213-san! Next, we'll straighten out your good Vox name; hopefully." : : I noticed Voxshowroom.com sells reprints of most of the 60's Thomas Organ/Vox : : catalogs, but not the now infamous Voxton years of 1969 or so. : : 02-26-2001 02:43:07 : : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : : everheardofem? (modified 0 times) : : Greg : : I've gotten some email replies since posting my first message. : : -- Dennis, owner of a Voxton acoustic, reported that his doesn't say "Made in Japan", : : just Thomas Organ and Voxton. : : ** Maybe only the electrics and semi's were Nippon made? Maybe the acoustics were : : Italian Eko leftovers or 'Merican? : : 02-26-2001 02:54:25 : : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : : everheardofem? (modified 0 times) : : Greg : : Jim Rhoads of www.rhoadsmusic.com replied: : : -- "Voxton guitars first appeared in the 1969 Vox catalog. These guitars and the : : Thomas Organ Vox USA company lasted until about 1970. : : Vox in England was aquired by The Royston Group, but Thomas Organ was a separate : : company. Thomas had a distribution deal/licensing agreement with Vox UK." : : ** Sounds right to me. But was Thomas Organ within their rights to sell copy guitars : : under a VOX-TYPE NAME under their agreement in 1969? : : ** Jim also commented on one of the posts on the 'guitarsite' thread, where a poster : : was guessing Voxtons might have been Italian designed, Korean made, and made : : earlier than 1967. Jim: : : -- "None of the info in this link/post is true." : : ** Agreed. And I think this comes from the people thinking of the Eko guitar story. : : Part of that history is excerpted from Michael Wright's "Guitar Stories," Book One : : here: : : http://www.vguitar.com/gstories.htm#eko : : ** About whether my Les Paul might have come with Super Distortions orignally, Jim : : says: : : -- "No." : : ** Yeah, probably not. : : Jim also wrote: : : -- "Voxton guitars are cheap Japanese 'Gibson' style copies and are not considered : : collectible Vox instruments." : : ** Well, alright. : : ** About the serial number / year connection: : : -- "Probably not, but I don't know." : : ** Thanks to the catalog info, I bet it's pretty accurate. Unless these guitars were : : made a couple years earlier? : : ** Another of my questions, "were they made by a 'known' overseas guitar maker, for : : Thomas Organ?" : : -- "There were many companies at the time who sold the exact same guitars with : : their own names on them. They are called 'house brands.'" : : ** Hmm. Then these may or may not have been made solely for Thomas Organ. I bet : : the headstock might help -- mine has a darker wood strip in the center, about 3/4" : : wide. The top of the headstock has a rounded inward 'dip' in the center, with two : : inward, 1/4" deep 'swoops' to the edges. : : ** About whether they might have been sold in England and the US: : : -- "They were for the US market as far as I know." : : ** I don't know, I've seen at least two British websites in which people recall buying : : their first guitar, a "Vox copy of a Les Paul." Maybe Vox imported some from Thomas : : Organ, or maybe they had their own house brand deal going on. : : 02-26-2001 03:20:23 : : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : : everheardofem? (modified 0 times) : : Greg : : Profile | Email : : SonicGuy replied: : : -- "They were sold by Thomas Organ in 1969 and 1970. They were made in the : : Orient." : : ** Cool. More verification. : : -- "I do not consider them to be VOX as they do not say VOX. They were an attempt : : by Thomas Organ to get cheaper guitars and make a higher profit margin on them. I : : think they have negligible collector value, too." : : ** It's not about money of course. Personally I'm interested in the rarity, the oddity : : and the story. : : ** is the '1970' of the serial number reflective of when they were made? : : -- "Yes." : : ** were they made by a 'known' overseas guitar maker, for Thomas Organ? : : "Nobody significant, say like an Ibanez." : : ** Anybody knopw if 1969 pre-dates the whole Ibanez copy fiasco? : : ** were they sold in England as well as America? : : -- "No they were not. In fact not too many were sold at all, these guitars, and Vox in : : America after 1968, were both flops." : : ** Again, (from admittedly completely anecdotal stuff that I've read) I'm not positive : : that there Vox UK wasn't selling these Voxtons too, or something similar. : : 02-26-2001 03:36:19 : : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : : everheardofem? (modified 1 times) : : Greg : : Profile | Email : : Duane Wayne from Voxshowroom.com: : : -- "I have not heard the "Japan" stuff - but I suppose anything is possible. Since you : : have a VOXton with Japan markings it could be true." : : ** I am going to believe the "Made in Japan" marking on my guitar at least, and since : : only it seems to have this marking, I suppose the different models of Voxtons could : : have originally come from more than one maker. : : -- "My understanding is that VOXton guitars were simply left over EKO badged VOX : : guitars that Thomas re-badged as VOXton to avoid VOX licensing which they no : : longer owned after 1970." : : ** This is the most interesting unknown so far, for two reasons: : : ** First, is there an Eko connection or not? Reading the information in that "Guitar : : Stories" book excerpt (URL above) didn't shine much light on Eko past the mid-60's. : : WAS Eko making Japanese stuff in 1969, and shopping it to musical instrument : : sellers? (And does anybody know if any books about Vox go into this?) : : ** Second, let's say Voxton's ARE re-badged Eko's (Eko guitars being middle of the : : road products from what I've gathered). Well, if the 1969 catalog had them, it all : : comes down to when the Thomas Organ licensing agreement ended -- again, there's : : the technicality. : : -- "I don't know any VOX collectors who consider VOXton guitars to be : : "true" VOX guitars even though they technically are the same." : : ** X-213-san, you Bastard! You bring shame upon the House of Vox! : : "...technically the same", Duane wrote. I think he meant Voxtons are just another : : Thomas Organ item that had a Vox-Type label. Reading the abbreviated chronological : : history on the Vox website doesn't clear up the technicality: : : 1967 - With the Royston Groups take over of Vox and the Thomas Organ Company’s : : control of Vox’s U.S. operation, Tom Jennings resigns. : : 1969 - Royston Industries go into liquidation and are put into the hand of the : : receiver. After nine mouths of uncertainty the Corinthian Bank becomes the new : : owner of Vox. The name changes to Vox Sound Ltd. : : 1970 - Vox Sound Ltd is sold to a consortium comprising of John Birch and George : : Stowe of Stolec Electronics and the Schroder Bank. : : ___________________________ : : Thanks again for any replies from Vox Collectors and Vox History buffs. I don't speak : : for the hordes of other Voxton owners, 5 total that I know of, but I'm sure we'll all be : : interested in what anyone can tell us. : : 02-26-2001 04:12:32 : : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : : everheardofem? (modified 0 times) : : Greg : : Profile | Email : : And, John, fellow Voxton owner, passed along this: : : His 175 copy is labeled: : : "Vox/Product of Thomas Organ Co.,Sepulvada, Calif. Model X 215, : : Ser No 1805033" and, "On the border of the paper, is the following No: : : 088-005527-01." : : 02-26-2001 04:17:08 : : : : : Post a New Message | Reply this Thread | Printer | Forward : : All times are EST : : Powered by UltraBoard v1.62 : : : : i just bought one of these voxton axes at a rummage sale for 35 bucks its a les paul copy plays real nice what are they worth?????