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Re: Need info on Voxton guitar

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Posted by Greg (from: ip234.san-antonio5.tx.pub-ip.psi.net) on February 26, 2001 at 04:20:02:

In Reply to: Re: Need info on Voxton guitar posted by Steve Murray on December 29, 2000 at 18:41:16:

Over the last coupla days, I've sent emails to everyone in this thread, and to a bunch of people who know Vox Guitar information. And, I posted a new thread at the bulletin board at www.voxtalks.com

In the interest of hopefully getting some new replies here, as well as there, I'm going to cut and paste and keep both updated with each other's information.

So, the link to the Voxtalks thread:

http://www.voxtalks.com/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=VT2&Post=16&Idle=0&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session=

And everything so far:

Voxton Guitars
(Thomas Organ)
everheardofem?

I have what.. I think.. may be, might sort of be a Vox guitar -- it's a Voxton.

I searched the net for "Voxton" (nope, it's not "VoxtRon" on the headstock) and
there's only one or two pieces of information on the web, anyway, - mostly in a
thread by someone else seeking information, on a different bulletin board (link below).

Here's all I know so far, I hope someone reading this will be able to share more!

I'm sure most people reading this know a company in Sepulveda CA, Thomas Organ,
sold Vox products and licensed the name in the U.S. Voxton's were made in Japan for
Thomas Organ -- possibly shortly after Thomas Organ merged, or was bought by,
another company, Royston.

( http://www.guitarsite.com/discussion/messages/3889.shtml )

(After reading the abbreviated history of Vox on their website, I got the impression
that all kinds of things were going on under the name Vox in the U.S.)

Also from that link -- these types of Voxton guitars were mentioned:

- two semi-hollow-bodies, one called "Model X-215", numbered 19700792, with an
inside label that reads, "Voxton / Product of Thomas Organ Co., Sepulveda, Calif."
- a SG-shaped Voxtron bass, hollow bodied with f-holes
- an acoustic

I guess my own Voxton guitar brings the 'known types' to Four -- it's a Les Paul copy,
also with a natural blond wood body and a bolt on neck. It doesn't have an arched
'top,' like a Gibson Les Paul would, and I don't know if the Super Distortion pickups
that were in the guitar when I bought it are original or not. The plate that bolts the
neck on reads, "Made in Japan" "1970032" (one less '0' than above?).

Things I'm really curious to find out are:

- are these considered "Vox" guitars?

- is the '1970' in the serial number when they were made?

- were they made by a 'known' overseas guitar maker, for Thomas Organ?

- were they sold in other places besides the U.S.?

- is it possible that there are only a thousand?, five thousand? Could "Voxton" guitars
be odball rarities?

Thanks very much,

Greg

(I've sent emails to Vox, Voxshowroom.com and a handful of other people. And --
anybody have a copy of some books by a Michael Wright, a writer for Vintage Guitar?
I thought I'd found his email, but it came back.)

02-24-2001 00:35:30

RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ)
everheardofem? (modified 0 times)
ihor+boyko

Voxton guitars are featured in probably one of the last Vox catalogs printed around
1969-1970. This is the catalog with the orange cover where the Beatles are playing
through solid state Vox amps with the amp heads turned around. The 1970 in the
serial # matches the time frame when these would have been made.

The electrics in the catalog include copies of the ES-330 (X-209), ES-175 (X-215),
EB2 Bass (X-212), and Les Paul (X-213). There are also several acoustic 6 and 12
string Voxton models pictured as well as classic style.

02-24-2001 16:03:41

RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ)
everheardofem? (modified 0 times)
Greg

Profile | Email

ihor+boyko --

Thanks! I read your reply, then I leaned over to my left and said, "Well Konichi Wa,
X-213-san! Next, we'll straighten out your good Vox name; hopefully."

I noticed Voxshowroom.com sells reprints of most of the 60's Thomas Organ/Vox
catalogs, but not the now infamous Voxton years of 1969 or so.

02-26-2001 02:43:07

RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ)
everheardofem? (modified 0 times)
Greg

I've gotten some email replies since posting my first message.

-- Dennis, owner of a Voxton acoustic, reported that his doesn't say "Made in Japan",
just Thomas Organ and Voxton.

** Maybe only the electrics and semi's were Nippon made? Maybe the acoustics were
Italian Eko leftovers or 'Merican?

02-26-2001 02:54:25

RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ)
everheardofem? (modified 0 times)
Greg

Jim Rhoads of www.rhoadsmusic.com replied:

-- "Voxton guitars first appeared in the 1969 Vox catalog. These guitars and the
Thomas Organ Vox USA company lasted until about 1970.
Vox in England was aquired by The Royston Group, but Thomas Organ was a separate
company. Thomas had a distribution deal/licensing agreement with Vox UK."

** Sounds right to me. But was Thomas Organ within their rights to sell copy guitars
under a VOX-TYPE NAME under their agreement in 1969?

** Jim also commented on one of the posts on the 'guitarsite' thread, where a poster
was guessing Voxtons might have been Italian designed, Korean made, and made
earlier than 1967. Jim:

-- "None of the info in this link/post is true."

** Agreed. And I think this comes from the people thinking of the Eko guitar story.
Part of that history is excerpted from Michael Wright's "Guitar Stories," Book One
here:

http://www.vguitar.com/gstories.htm#eko

** About whether my Les Paul might have come with Super Distortions orignally, Jim
says:

-- "No."

** Yeah, probably not.

Jim also wrote:

-- "Voxton guitars are cheap Japanese 'Gibson' style copies and are not considered
collectible Vox instruments."

** Well, alright.

** About the serial number / year connection:

-- "Probably not, but I don't know."

** Thanks to the catalog info, I bet it's pretty accurate. Unless these guitars were
made a couple years earlier?

** Another of my questions, "were they made by a 'known' overseas guitar maker, for
Thomas Organ?"

-- "There were many companies at the time who sold the exact same guitars with
their own names on them. They are called 'house brands.'"

** Hmm. Then these may or may not have been made solely for Thomas Organ. I bet
the headstock might help -- mine has a darker wood strip in the center, about 3/4"
wide. The top of the headstock has a rounded inward 'dip' in the center, with two
inward, 1/4" deep 'swoops' to the edges.

** About whether they might have been sold in England and the US:

-- "They were for the US market as far as I know."

** I don't know, I've seen at least two British websites in which people recall buying
their first guitar, a "Vox copy of a Les Paul." Maybe Vox imported some from Thomas
Organ, or maybe they had their own house brand deal going on.

02-26-2001 03:20:23

RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ)
everheardofem? (modified 0 times)
Greg

Profile | Email

SonicGuy replied:

-- "They were sold by Thomas Organ in 1969 and 1970. They were made in the
Orient."

** Cool. More verification.

-- "I do not consider them to be VOX as they do not say VOX. They were an attempt
by Thomas Organ to get cheaper guitars and make a higher profit margin on them. I
think they have negligible collector value, too."

** It's not about money of course. Personally I'm interested in the rarity, the oddity
and the story.

** is the '1970' of the serial number reflective of when they were made?

-- "Yes."

** were they made by a 'known' overseas guitar maker, for Thomas Organ?

"Nobody significant, say like an Ibanez."

** Anybody knopw if 1969 pre-dates the whole Ibanez copy fiasco?

** were they sold in England as well as America?

-- "No they were not. In fact not too many were sold at all, these guitars, and Vox in
America after 1968, were both flops."

** Again, (from admittedly completely anecdotal stuff that I've read) I'm not positive
that there Vox UK wasn't selling these Voxtons too, or something similar.

02-26-2001 03:36:19

RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ)
everheardofem? (modified 1 times)
Greg

Profile | Email

Duane Wayne from Voxshowroom.com:

-- "I have not heard the "Japan" stuff - but I suppose anything is possible. Since you
have a VOXton with Japan markings it could be true."

** I am going to believe the "Made in Japan" marking on my guitar at least, and since
only it seems to have this marking, I suppose the different models of Voxtons could
have originally come from more than one maker.

-- "My understanding is that VOXton guitars were simply left over EKO badged VOX
guitars that Thomas re-badged as VOXton to avoid VOX licensing which they no
longer owned after 1970."

** This is the most interesting unknown so far, for two reasons:

** First, is there an Eko connection or not? Reading the information in that "Guitar
Stories" book excerpt (URL above) didn't shine much light on Eko past the mid-60's.
WAS Eko making Japanese stuff in 1969, and shopping it to musical instrument
sellers? (And does anybody know if any books about Vox go into this?)

** Second, let's say Voxton's ARE re-badged Eko's (Eko guitars being middle of the
road products from what I've gathered). Well, if the 1969 catalog had them, it all
comes down to when the Thomas Organ licensing agreement ended -- again, there's
the technicality.

-- "I don't know any VOX collectors who consider VOXton guitars to be
"true" VOX guitars even though they technically are the same."

** X-213-san, you Bastard! You bring shame upon the House of Vox!
"...technically the same", Duane wrote. I think he meant Voxtons are just another
Thomas Organ item that had a Vox-Type label. Reading the abbreviated chronological
history on the Vox website doesn't clear up the technicality:

1967 - With the Royston Groups take over of Vox and the Thomas Organ Company�s
control of Vox�s U.S. operation, Tom Jennings resigns.

1969 - Royston Industries go into liquidation and are put into the hand of the
receiver. After nine mouths of uncertainty the Corinthian Bank becomes the new
owner of Vox. The name changes to Vox Sound Ltd.

1970 - Vox Sound Ltd is sold to a consortium comprising of John Birch and George
Stowe of Stolec Electronics and the Schroder Bank.

___________________________

Thanks again for any replies from Vox Collectors and Vox History buffs. I don't speak
for the hordes of other Voxton owners, 5 total that I know of, but I'm sure we'll all be
interested in what anyone can tell us.

02-26-2001 04:12:32

RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ)
everheardofem? (modified 0 times)
Greg

Profile | Email

And, John, fellow Voxton owner, passed along this:

His 175 copy is labeled:

"Vox/Product of Thomas Organ Co.,Sepulvada, Calif. Model X 215,
Ser No 1805033" and, "On the border of the paper, is the following No:
088-005527-01."

02-26-2001 04:17:08

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: Over the last coupla days, I've sent emails to everyone in this thread, and to a bunch of people who know Vox Guitar information. And, I posted a new thread at the bulletin board at www.voxtalks.com : In the interest of hopefully getting some new replies here, as well as there, I'm going to cut and paste and keep both updated with each other's information. : So, the link to the Voxtalks thread: : http://www.voxtalks.com/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=VT2&Post=16&Idle=0&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session= : And everything so far: : Voxton Guitars : (Thomas Organ) : everheardofem? : I have what.. I think.. may be, might sort of be a Vox guitar -- it's a Voxton. : I searched the net for "Voxton" (nope, it's not "VoxtRon" on the headstock) and : there's only one or two pieces of information on the web, anyway, - mostly in a : thread by someone else seeking information, on a different bulletin board (link below). : Here's all I know so far, I hope someone reading this will be able to share more! : I'm sure most people reading this know a company in Sepulveda CA, Thomas Organ, : sold Vox products and licensed the name in the U.S. Voxton's were made in Japan for : Thomas Organ -- possibly shortly after Thomas Organ merged, or was bought by, : another company, Royston. : ( http://www.guitarsite.com/discussion/messages/3889.shtml ) : (After reading the abbreviated history of Vox on their website, I got the impression : that all kinds of things were going on under the name Vox in the U.S.) : Also from that link -- these types of Voxton guitars were mentioned: : - two semi-hollow-bodies, one called "Model X-215", numbered 19700792, with an : inside label that reads, "Voxton / Product of Thomas Organ Co., Sepulveda, Calif." : - a SG-shaped Voxtron bass, hollow bodied with f-holes : - an acoustic : I guess my own Voxton guitar brings the 'known types' to Four -- it's a Les Paul copy, : also with a natural blond wood body and a bolt on neck. It doesn't have an arched : 'top,' like a Gibson Les Paul would, and I don't know if the Super Distortion pickups : that were in the guitar when I bought it are original or not. The plate that bolts the : neck on reads, "Made in Japan" "1970032" (one less '0' than above?). : Things I'm really curious to find out are: : - are these considered "Vox" guitars? : - is the '1970' in the serial number when they were made? : - were they made by a 'known' overseas guitar maker, for Thomas Organ? : - were they sold in other places besides the U.S.? : - is it possible that there are only a thousand?, five thousand? Could "Voxton" guitars : be odball rarities? : Thanks very much, : Greg : (I've sent emails to Vox, Voxshowroom.com and a handful of other people. And -- : anybody have a copy of some books by a Michael Wright, a writer for Vintage Guitar? : I thought I'd found his email, but it came back.) : 02-24-2001 00:35:30 : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : everheardofem? (modified 0 times) : ihor+boyko : Voxton guitars are featured in probably one of the last Vox catalogs printed around : 1969-1970. This is the catalog with the orange cover where the Beatles are playing : through solid state Vox amps with the amp heads turned around. The 1970 in the : serial # matches the time frame when these would have been made. : The electrics in the catalog include copies of the ES-330 (X-209), ES-175 (X-215), : EB2 Bass (X-212), and Les Paul (X-213). There are also several acoustic 6 and 12 : string Voxton models pictured as well as classic style. : 02-24-2001 16:03:41 : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : everheardofem? (modified 0 times) : Greg : Profile | Email : ihor+boyko -- : Thanks! I read your reply, then I leaned over to my left and said, "Well Konichi Wa, : X-213-san! Next, we'll straighten out your good Vox name; hopefully." : I noticed Voxshowroom.com sells reprints of most of the 60's Thomas Organ/Vox : catalogs, but not the now infamous Voxton years of 1969 or so. : 02-26-2001 02:43:07 : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : everheardofem? (modified 0 times) : Greg : I've gotten some email replies since posting my first message. : -- Dennis, owner of a Voxton acoustic, reported that his doesn't say "Made in Japan", : just Thomas Organ and Voxton. : ** Maybe only the electrics and semi's were Nippon made? Maybe the acoustics were : Italian Eko leftovers or 'Merican? : 02-26-2001 02:54:25 : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : everheardofem? (modified 0 times) : Greg : Jim Rhoads of www.rhoadsmusic.com replied: : -- "Voxton guitars first appeared in the 1969 Vox catalog. These guitars and the : Thomas Organ Vox USA company lasted until about 1970. : Vox in England was aquired by The Royston Group, but Thomas Organ was a separate : company. Thomas had a distribution deal/licensing agreement with Vox UK." : ** Sounds right to me. But was Thomas Organ within their rights to sell copy guitars : under a VOX-TYPE NAME under their agreement in 1969? : ** Jim also commented on one of the posts on the 'guitarsite' thread, where a poster : was guessing Voxtons might have been Italian designed, Korean made, and made : earlier than 1967. Jim: : -- "None of the info in this link/post is true." : ** Agreed. And I think this comes from the people thinking of the Eko guitar story. : Part of that history is excerpted from Michael Wright's "Guitar Stories," Book One : here: : http://www.vguitar.com/gstories.htm#eko : ** About whether my Les Paul might have come with Super Distortions orignally, Jim : says: : -- "No." : ** Yeah, probably not. : Jim also wrote: : -- "Voxton guitars are cheap Japanese 'Gibson' style copies and are not considered : collectible Vox instruments." : ** Well, alright. : ** About the serial number / year connection: : -- "Probably not, but I don't know." : ** Thanks to the catalog info, I bet it's pretty accurate. Unless these guitars were : made a couple years earlier? : ** Another of my questions, "were they made by a 'known' overseas guitar maker, for : Thomas Organ?" : -- "There were many companies at the time who sold the exact same guitars with : their own names on them. They are called 'house brands.'" : ** Hmm. Then these may or may not have been made solely for Thomas Organ. I bet : the headstock might help -- mine has a darker wood strip in the center, about 3/4" : wide. The top of the headstock has a rounded inward 'dip' in the center, with two : inward, 1/4" deep 'swoops' to the edges. : ** About whether they might have been sold in England and the US: : -- "They were for the US market as far as I know." : ** I don't know, I've seen at least two British websites in which people recall buying : their first guitar, a "Vox copy of a Les Paul." Maybe Vox imported some from Thomas : Organ, or maybe they had their own house brand deal going on. : 02-26-2001 03:20:23 : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : everheardofem? (modified 0 times) : Greg : Profile | Email : SonicGuy replied: : -- "They were sold by Thomas Organ in 1969 and 1970. They were made in the : Orient." : ** Cool. More verification. : -- "I do not consider them to be VOX as they do not say VOX. They were an attempt : by Thomas Organ to get cheaper guitars and make a higher profit margin on them. I : think they have negligible collector value, too." : ** It's not about money of course. Personally I'm interested in the rarity, the oddity : and the story. : ** is the '1970' of the serial number reflective of when they were made? : -- "Yes." : ** were they made by a 'known' overseas guitar maker, for Thomas Organ? : "Nobody significant, say like an Ibanez." : ** Anybody knopw if 1969 pre-dates the whole Ibanez copy fiasco? : ** were they sold in England as well as America? : -- "No they were not. In fact not too many were sold at all, these guitars, and Vox in : America after 1968, were both flops." : ** Again, (from admittedly completely anecdotal stuff that I've read) I'm not positive : that there Vox UK wasn't selling these Voxtons too, or something similar. : 02-26-2001 03:36:19 : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : everheardofem? (modified 1 times) : Greg : Profile | Email : Duane Wayne from Voxshowroom.com: : -- "I have not heard the "Japan" stuff - but I suppose anything is possible. Since you : have a VOXton with Japan markings it could be true." : ** I am going to believe the "Made in Japan" marking on my guitar at least, and since : only it seems to have this marking, I suppose the different models of Voxtons could : have originally come from more than one maker. : -- "My understanding is that VOXton guitars were simply left over EKO badged VOX : guitars that Thomas re-badged as VOXton to avoid VOX licensing which they no : longer owned after 1970." : ** This is the most interesting unknown so far, for two reasons: : ** First, is there an Eko connection or not? Reading the information in that "Guitar : Stories" book excerpt (URL above) didn't shine much light on Eko past the mid-60's. : WAS Eko making Japanese stuff in 1969, and shopping it to musical instrument : sellers? (And does anybody know if any books about Vox go into this?) : ** Second, let's say Voxton's ARE re-badged Eko's (Eko guitars being middle of the : road products from what I've gathered). Well, if the 1969 catalog had them, it all : comes down to when the Thomas Organ licensing agreement ended -- again, there's : the technicality. : -- "I don't know any VOX collectors who consider VOXton guitars to be : "true" VOX guitars even though they technically are the same." : ** X-213-san, you Bastard! You bring shame upon the House of Vox! : "...technically the same", Duane wrote. I think he meant Voxtons are just another : Thomas Organ item that had a Vox-Type label. Reading the abbreviated chronological : history on the Vox website doesn't clear up the technicality: : 1967 - With the Royston Groups take over of Vox and the Thomas Organ Company�s : control of Vox�s U.S. operation, Tom Jennings resigns. : 1969 - Royston Industries go into liquidation and are put into the hand of the : receiver. After nine mouths of uncertainty the Corinthian Bank becomes the new : owner of Vox. The name changes to Vox Sound Ltd. : 1970 - Vox Sound Ltd is sold to a consortium comprising of John Birch and George : Stowe of Stolec Electronics and the Schroder Bank. : ___________________________ : Thanks again for any replies from Vox Collectors and Vox History buffs. I don't speak : for the hordes of other Voxton owners, 5 total that I know of, but I'm sure we'll all be : interested in what anyone can tell us. : 02-26-2001 04:12:32 : RE:Voxton Guitars (Thomas Organ) : everheardofem? (modified 0 times) : Greg : Profile | Email : And, John, fellow Voxton owner, passed along this: : His 175 copy is labeled: : "Vox/Product of Thomas Organ Co.,Sepulvada, Calif. Model X 215, : Ser No 1805033" and, "On the border of the paper, is the following No: : 088-005527-01." : 02-26-2001 04:17:08 : : Post a New Message | Reply this Thread | Printer | Forward : All times are EST : Powered by UltraBoard v1.62 :

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