Sammi, the PRS is the ludicrously-named “Performing Right Society”.

It sounds like a therapy group for male porn actors, but it isn’t. It’s the UK’s scavenging device for making sure that money is recovered from venues (live pubs, discos, guitar shops, apparently) and handed out to artists. Pretty complicated; there’s something like Mechanical Copyright Protection Society (MCPS) that collects revenues from radio stations etc and generally muddies the waters (I doubtless have to pay a fee for saying “Muddy” and “Waters” in the same sentence).

They’re all quite thick, AFAIK, and just take money off businesses on a fairly flat-rate %, then distribute it on the basis of gawd-knows-what formula. I do know that Simon Cowall (the shrewd “Idol” svengali) long ago made a point of playing the triangle on any recording that passed his way. So he can claim his performer’s rights. I do find it highly irritating that I subsidize these people every time I buy a blank cassette or perform in a pub. They are completely incapable of working out what really happens; can’t cope with the ‘net, so the knee-jerk reaction is to come down even heavier on the soft targets.

How interesting!
The hottest discussion I’m involved in on my ‘other’ discussion board here is all about whether we should re-start or reform a union to protect those of us earning a few bucks by playing gigs in bars. Whatever the PRS is, it sounds a lot like the RIAA- but they are not bothering with clubs or music stores, probably because they’ve figured out that is nothing next to the music going on over the ‘Net.
However, the idiotic mind-set is the same- Sue Them!!!! As if ANYON E believes anymore that Bruce Springsteen can’t feed his kids because of pirating on the internet 😆
I’ve been performing my own stuff for wel over twenty years, and never gotten a crumb of help from the industry people, because the stuff I do is not commercial. So- why should THEY be the ones who get to set the rules? the Golden Rule- those with the gold make the rules? I can’t dig that.
Of course, there is another difference I’m not proud of, that could be a factor in why music shop owners in the States would never tolerate having to pay to play- most of them are also gun owners! 😯

As you know Bass, im in an Originals band and a Covers band, I like the process of making a song, i like all the creativity but ive never realy enjoyed the public performance of it, you always get the BS’ers who say oh that was great, you should record a CD blah blah, but i think you get to a certain age and you kind of know you wont be going anywhere with it, but in the Covers band, you can see the effect of all your rehearsing in the numbers that are looking at you and clapping at the end of each song, and the amont of people dancing through your set, and the short term finnacial rewards arent bad either.

[quote]2 pool players, i bored looking barmaid and an 80yr old regular sipping a pint and reading a newspaper[/quote]

Blimey! I wondered who was depping on lead guitar that day! Seriously, we’ve had gigs involving “three men and a dog” and the standing-on-chairs-cheering crowd (admittedly, in an average-sized pub) but you’re right; neither pay the expenses (Elton gets the same money regardless).

F’me, I’d rather do our own songs and take the hit on payment. OTOH, I bought a leccy piano off a guy who did covers three nights a week. I wrinkled my nose when he told me, but he kindof shut me up that he was getting a decent weekly wage playing music instead of working in a biscuit factory; his old job. I used to be snobby about being an “originals” player, but not after I had that conversation.

most of the original material bands ive been in have to pay to play (in other words you dont get anything, so the petrol money it costs are paid by you, so in effect you pay to play) in any decent venues, otherwise you have to play to 2 pool players, i bored looking barmaid and an 80yr old regular sipping a pint and reading a newspaper, I think its fair to say, most pubs employ the ‘Covers’ bands, a good Covers band can pack a pub out on a sat night.
But like you Bass i think the public performance payments are rubbish, and i will be loading up my shotgun alongside you on judgement day.

I just knew the PRS would be behind that 🙄 . They know squat about anything, always behind the times, heavy on stationary objects, like live music bars and guitar shops. Know nothing about the net, downloading, mp3 – total dinosaurs. PRS kills live music faster than Domestos.

Example, my band plays our own music in a pub. We get exactly butkus from PRS for the public performance of our material. Instead, the pub landlord pays a fee to PRS who assume that we must have done covers. So, Elton John, Shakin’ Stevens and anybody else we wouldn’t cover under anaesthetic get a slice of our miserable payment. It’s like the old Cassette tape tariff. I only used cassettes for rehearsal recordings, but every tape I bought contained a tax to compensate Elton because I “must have been” pirating his latest album.

Useless outfit, first against the wall…

Sorry guys, it’s http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/s/207/207169_its_a_fiddle.html

A “404” link, Mike. Still, the well-known pricey guitar shifter Ed Roman pretty much brags on his site that you’re not supposed to touch his high-end gear. No way does he want his classy stuff fingered by the proles. The idea seems to be that you look at it hanging on the wall and hand over a four-figure sum to take it home. But he dislikes eBay because you don’t know what you’re getting. Go figure, as the saying goes.

Related link: http://www..co.uk/news/s/207/207169_its_a_fiddle.html

Music shop boss Steve Kowalski has been told he will have to pay to play if his customers want to try out his instruments before they buy.

I don’t think it’s that recent a phenomenom. In guitar shops of the 70s, you could earn a quid for hitting people playing the intro to “Stairway” or “Smoke”. I retired shortly after getting my first million. I used to give them a chance, though. “Play the rest of the song”, but they never could. Like Wasp implies, it’s that short attention span. Knowing the first 16 bars is enough to impress the mates or the girls, so that’ll do.

This is interesting; I can confirm that it is a WORLD problem, not just a UK thing.
Though I have been lucky enough to work with some astounding players, including the guitarist in my current band, I’ve seen the same thing over and over in auditions, open-mic nights, and jams. Young and old people who have picked up a guitar and figured out the intro to “Crazy Train”, or possibly the whole of “Badge” (2 perrenial favorites here in the states) and try to pass themselves off as a guitarist.
Now, I probably shouldn’t be judging, because, though I’ve been playing for (mumblety-mumble mum) years, I don’t even consider MYSELF a “guitarist”, as I don’t play leads, or indeed, do anything more complicated than strum chords. I am first a songwriter, and secondly, a vocalist, who plays guitar when there is no-one more capable around to do it for me. That is how I have introduced myself for years- yet I keep finding myself at jam sessions and auditions having to show supposed guitarists how to play!
I wouldn’t play outside my bedroon closet until I could creditably pull off at least 10 Peter, Paul and Mary tunes, and a handful of Simon and Garfunkel and James Taylor. I may be dating myself, but I learned to play in utero, you understand! Where are these people getting the idea that all you need is a few riffs and you are a player? Blame American Idol- or maybe it’s part of the remote-channel-changer, video game world of too much choice?

You often find those players who only know bits of songs have never been in a band, when you joing a band you’ll have to know a minimum of 30 songs from start to finnish, intros, riffs, solos, the whole lot, he cant call himself an expierenced guitarist if he doesnt know complete songs, maybe he’s one of those that needs the old 101 Hits of the sixties songbook, we had a guitarist, well he called himself a guitarist in our old covers band and he always had a classic quote for songs, he’d say ‘oh yeah sympathy for the devil, thats easy, its only 4 chords, E D A B’ and i’d say, theres a little more to it than that, and then he’d play those 4 chords, but all in the wrong order.

Good to see you back Youngwasp.

I agree. Learning only parts of songs can be helpful, but if it’s done all the time, well… It’s like teaching a dog to fetch, but not how to return. It seems half assed.

Maybe it’s a personal problem with attention spans? Maybe it comes down to the ‘guitar player getting laid’ image and knowing the intro to Stairway is enough to get the pants off? Does it depend what they want from playing.