Understanding CMI guitars and amps

1bassleft · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:39 am Post subject:

, hmmm. I was obviously way out on my "yours would probably fetch £100", then. In defence, most perfectly decent solid-bodied CMI electrics don't fetch much more and I thought the acoustic would have less "Marshall" appeal. HST, a very pretty 12-string like that one would appeal to many. I'm not qualified to do bazouki recommendations, you'll not be surprised to hear Smile

1bassleft · Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject:

Another US-market CMI is on ebay; low-end "estate find" type of guitar:

Apart from the beat-up looks, it's in common with some other 60s Japan US CMIs seen before (loosely styled on a Fender Mustang) and has the logo found on pretty much all Chicago guitars, up to the 80s-styled instruments previously noted.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130069182849&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:UK:

myfoot · Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject:

I'm pretty confused by this one...it says Ibanez/cmi in the posting but the headstock says rickenbocker ( Razz

) May be one for your collection 1b
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ibanez-CMI-1970s-Vintage-4003-bass-guitar_W0QQitemZ110078506629QQihZ001QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

EDIT: the mystery is solved

Quote:

Rickenbacker truss rod cover (non original as original Ibanez/CMI one is missing)

EDIT Again ..isn't there a post for something like this?

Quote:

Starting bid: GBP 499.00
(Approximately US $976.89)

1bassleft · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:52 am Post subject:

I've seen it listed before, myfoot. I'm surprised Rick's lawyers don't jump on it; they're like Rottweilers if they see their name mentioned on another bass (plus, they don't hand out those rod covers lightly, either). For me, I don't understand why CMI is mentioned. AFAIK, CMI (England) 4001-types were bolt-on necks. So were Greco, but this is a thru-neck which makes it a bit of an unusually high quality copy. Still, £499 is having a bit of a laugh.

myfoot · Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject:

picture lost so edited post

1bassleft · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:41 am Post subject:

An absolute plethora of CMI and related gear up on Fleeb that I haven't got around to putting up. Let's start off with this El Monte (Standel) SG systems CMI amp chassis:

This is a frustrating one for me because I planned to purchase it. As myfoot will tell you, the full combos are notoriously hefty and it would be murder to ship one across the pond to me. This was just the bare chassis, that might be feasible to ship, and a starting bid of $99. I asked my mate in CA to bid for it but his electrician managed to knock out his entire wiring on the day of the auction. It went to a single bid for the $99 Mad

. I even have one of the 8417 power tubes in my stash but, as mentioned previously, it could be set up to run 6550s or KT88s without much trouble. Anyway, here are a few more pics so that you can see the wiring and circuit boards for these amps. All of the 100W types, AFAIK are alike and only differ in their speaker content. Valve/tube power section (12AX7 phase inverter) and a solid-state preamp including phaser, reverb and other stuff. Would've been an interesting bass head I think.

Moving on, a Cleartone (Marshall) CMI PA 50W came up for sale in the USA. I advised my CA mate to consider a bid, but the seller pulled, probably expecting much bigger bids to come in. The external design is very similar to my 100W Lead/Bass:

but the internals are very different, and I don't just mean the obvious fact that there are more inputs as you'd expect for a PA. This amp is not P2P turret-board wired like mine, but has a PCB and the chassis seems to have been factory-cut to accomodate it:

Although the seller says the factory sticker says June 1974, I doubt it. I haven't seen a pre-1976 CMI Marshall and (as I mentioned) the usual '76-'77 CMIs are P2P wired, even though proper Marshalls and even Parks were PCB designs by 1976. I suspect the date on the sticker is actually 1979 (ties in with the PCB) but this, in itself, is interesting. CMI amps are supposed to have died out by 1977, although the guitars continued up to 1979 or 1980. Now, it appears, the amp brand continued longer than thought:

Staying with Cleartone/Marshall, a number of pedals have come up. This is a clean-looking Fuzz-Wah-Swell:

The seller reckons this was made by Sola Sound of London but bizarrely stated this was badged for "Chorley Musical Industries"; a Marshall offshoot. I live not far from the Lancashire town of Chorley, where excellent cakes are made but no amps and pedals that I know of. This pedal sold for a hefty 185 pounds Sterling and the buyer is a Park/Marshall collector I'm acquainted with.

A dustier but similar one went earlier for 112 Sterling:

For comparison, there is a Colorsound auction running at the moment:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230110301466&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX&refitem=330089359794&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget

Final Cleartone pedal is a Fuzz unit that, for some reason had the DPDT switch replaced. The replacement wasn't fitted where the original was but drilled through the CMI logo:

This didn't prevent it fetching a whopping 208 Sterling, and again my Park-collector acquaintance was the high bidder.

There have also been a couple of solid-state CMI Cleartone amps. These never fetch much and this first one was got by our very own mjet260, as much for the logo plate as anything:

and it's the same model as a tidier example seen earlier in this thread.

Also around (recently relisted) is a SS 100W Lead/Bass head:

I've spotted guitars/basses, and most of these are Cleartone CMIs, not the US market ones. Another 12-string, similar to the ones posted earlier here, sold (a fake Gibson logo was put on the headstock) for 149 Sterling. The seller stated this was made at Matsumoku. Again, I have to say I have never got the evidence for these Ibanez-factory etc claims that usually crop up on eBay sales:

Although Ibanez did copy the J200, so did Maya (albeit far less convincingly) and I've mentioned before the similarities of Maya and Yamato to early CMIs. This retailer is selling a 1973 Maya J200:
http://www.johnjohnrecords.com/html/instruments.html

This Cleartone Gold Top sold for around 150 Sterling, which is better than recent CMI Gibson copies.

Still I don't think it was yet more Ibanez talk that pushed the price up so much as the retrofitted Ibanez tuners and a pair of Dimarzio buckers. Bolt-on or not, these CMI Gibbos look good value for the money they sell at.

A twin-neck CMI fetched a good 300+ Sterling price, but the pics weren't very helpful:

I'll finish off with a bit of Maya and Yamato guitars. I saw this lefty Maya Strat which looks more modern and a closer copy than is usually the case with them:

but note the excessive black on the sunburst, particularly around the forearm shave. That's a giveaway of a plywood body.

A Yamato Mustang-style guitar is much more typical of that early 70s, not very convincing copy, look. Despite the dogy hardware, the neck is once again a nice-looking bit of maple:

and a Spanish seller has a near-mint one:

A bass with what I consider to be the US-market Chicago CMI logo turned up in Germany (with the usual, pointy, 80s looks):

And finally, just to really annoy me, I saw this oddball CMI clock. Now, in the US, CMI is Chicago Musical Instruments, right? We all know that. So I was a bit thrown out by this:

It turns out that this CMI operates from Nashville, TN, right at this moment; selling keyboards and drums. Another CMI is all I need Rolling Eyes

myfoot · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject:

I actually saw a few of those 1b. I had my eye on that marshall/cmi pa head just to see what it went for . There was actually a few sgs as well. The 2 I watched got up to $ 300 and didn't hit the reserve.
Did you miss this one 1b? I thought of you when I saw it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-SG-TUBE-BASS-AMP-AMPLIFIER-HEAD-GIBSON-STANDEL_W0QQitemZ300094662510QQcategoryZ121159QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Went for $124.25

I was gone when this one ended but thought of dropping a bid on it as well
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220094848238&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:US:1

1bassleft · Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:56 am Post subject:

I didn't see either of those, myfoot; thanks for bringing them to my attention. It's nice to know that the SG CMI heads are fairly prevalent and (better still, for my interest) not expensive. If I were to go for one, I'd prefer to have all that mad FX stuff to compensate for the SS preamp. Interesting items, thanks.

1bassleft · Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject:

I got an interesting Q in the acoustics section, linking Maya to a luthier called Tahara. Doing a search turned up some interesting info here:
http://www.ezfolk.com/forums/forum16/762-1.html

Maya was a brand name buying from various sources, with varying quality. It's possible that CMI (Marshall) was dealing with Maya (or, more accurately, Rokkoman) rather than direct with factories given the similarities between their guitars. The high quality of the CMI 12-string may be a result of the work of Tahara-san.

Watching the auctions, SG Systems (Standel, CA) amps are not fetching money. Complete combos (6x10, 2x15 and 4x12) fail to attract bids with a $300 start and the chassis taken from a 610 sold for just under $115.

CMI Marshall amps, made in Bletchley, attract much more bidding but sellers put fantasy land start prices or reserves on them. A 50W Lead/Bass, similar to my 100W, started at $1800 and was pulled, possibly because the seller got an offer. I'm sure it's the same one that had a $2000 BIN and failed to exceed $1200 a coupla times. A 2x12" Bluesbreaker-style combo, sold by a Plexi Palace member I know of, went to $2750 without reaching its reserve:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280191242189&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018

Interestingly, a speaker and a chassis code dates the amp to 1974; that's two years earlier than the CMI name is supposed to have been used by Marshall (note that PA head above that I said was more likely '79 than '74. Maybe I'm wrong).
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280191242189&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018

CMI (Marshall) guitars have come up, including setneck Gibson copies. A twinbucker Telecaster ('72 style) was an excellent copy and fetched a respectable 172 pounds sterling. Note that this (like all other quality CMIs I've seen) does not feature "Made in Japan" on the neckplate as the earlier, tackier CMI/Maya/Yamato types do. A change of factory, I reckon:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160200104430&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=006

robin · Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Bucks

just found this forum and can tell you about my two CMi guitars.....
I have two LP CMI copies left-handed..
One I purchased new from a shop I think called Abercorn Music near Woking somewhere . I found the shop advertising in Exchange and Mart
I had a choice of two , a black one or the red sunburst I chose...this has the newer curly logo...........I paid around £150 but did a part ex. with a left handed Grimshaw so not too sure......this was spring 1980...

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