Home Forums Guitar Discussion Guitar I cant believe its the real Riff

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  • #23209
    lee_UK
    Participant

    I heard something quite startling the other day, i was transfering a load of MP3’s from one drive to another, and i came across an ELO greatest hits folder, (old and dusty, hardly played) i clicked on a song called ‘10538 Overture’ from 1971.
    Paul Weller had a hit with a song co-written by himself called ‘Changin’ Man’ the opening riff over 8 bars is exactly the same as ‘10538 Overture’, note for note, even the same tone on the guitar.
    Weller had blatently nicked that riff off Geff Lynne, but then i heard a story about The Verves ‘Bitter sweet symphony’ where they had supposedly (with permission) lifted The Rolling Stones ‘Last Time’ riff, and put it in the chorus of the song, its so far under stings, keyboards, bass drums and vocals that i cant even hear it, ive listened very carefuly too, anyway,
    Allen Klein who owns the copyright to pre 1970 Stones songs, sued the Verve, he said they used a longer sample than they had agreed.
    So The Verve settle out of court and sign over all the copyright to him.

    After all that is settled, Andrew loog Oldham the Stones manager before Klein steps in and takes them to the cleaners, to add insult to injury, the song ‘Bitter sweet’ goes on to win a Grammy and Jagger and Richards get the credit!! and all this for a sample that i cant even hear!

    So how the hell did Weller get away with the ELO stolen riff? maybe it all comes down to playing the notes yourself, and not sampling them.

    Then i suppose Geff Lynn nicked that riff off of The Beatles with ‘Dear Prudence’ , But Weller of course nicked ‘Taxman’ from the Beatles for his and the Jam’s ‘Start’ Single, which went to No1 for a few weeks.

    Anyone know of any other stolen riffs?

    (Keith Richards nicked ‘Brown Sugar’ off of me in 1970, but do you think i can prove it? and i was only 5, damned Stones legal team)

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    • #72196
      1bassleft
      Participant

      A little bit ironic, Tim 😛 . I always love your “but then again, I’m rambling, please ignore, where’s my glass gone?” posts 😀

    • #72163
      Tim
      Participant

      [quote=”1bassleft”] 😆 , You may have done, Tim. Seeing as you’re a teetotaller, you’ll just have to forgive wine-supping posters with sieve-memories like me :P[/quote]

      ?!!! Don’t know where you got that idea, I didn’t realise my PC worked when I was sober, it’ll be much cheaper to run if I don’t have to buy a bottle of red to use it! 😀

      Or were you being sarcastic maybe?…

    • #72187
      1bassleft
      Participant

      [quote]I’m sure I put that on a thread somewhere? I distinctly remember the first time I heard that song as I could suddenly play two covers, not just one…[/quote]

      😆 , You may have done, Tim. Seeing as you’re a teetotaller, you’ll just have to forgive wine-supping posters with sieve-memories like me 😛

      OK, another “unconcious plagiarism” (and I don’t mean me repeating previous posts). Heard The Raconteurs yet? Another outlet for Jack White, and I do like his ability to turn one good riff into a whole song; really, I do. Thing is, when I’m listening to the single “Steady as She Goes” I can’t help thinking of ’80s winklepicker wearing songsmith Joe Jackson: in particular, his verse for the song “Is She Really Going Out With Him?” The identical guitar sections may have something to do with it.

      (ps, if any publishing company lawyers are looking in. Please contact us regarding fees as expert witnesses. Wouldn’t want you plagiarizing our forum posts now, would we? 😉 )

    • #72167
      Tim
      Participant

      I’d die if I had to get up and play at a gig (apart from my own!) my other half was trying to volunteer me to lead the clapping at our local open-mic night and I was practically under the table trying to hide!

      [quote=”1bassleft”] Anyone notice that Transvision Vamp’s “Baby I Don’t Care” was just “Wild Thing” with a different vocal?[/quote]

      I’m sure I put that on a thread somewhere? I distinctly remember the first time I heard that song as I could suddenly play two covers, not just one…

    • #72203
      Michael
      Participant

      classic 😆

    • #72157
      1bassleft
      Participant

      😳 , Reminds me of another confession. As a Fresher, I was taken by a bunch of pill-munching goons in my house to see The Eden. Not a bad gig although, if effeteness were mass, they’d’ve been sucked into their own black hole (and probably enjoyed it). Anyhoo, they had a tradition of ending the gig with an uber-camp rendition of “Wild Thing”. Hyooge pause as Robert John Godfrey (I think that’s the guy’s name – remember, The Smiths were a long way off yet) kept explaining that they couldn’t start because they were still looking for the support act’s bass player to join them.

      “He’s a bass player!” kept shouting my sulphate-sucking chums, pushing me onto a stage that was barely shin high. Godfrey was bemusedly wondering whether to hand me a (right-handed, not that it mattered) bass while I was desperately trying to claw my way back off; finally doing a midget version of the stage-dive about seven years before Cobain ever thought of it. The support-act bloke finally put me out of the embarressment.

      That’s by the by… 😳 Anyone notice that Transvision Vamp’s “Baby I Don’t Care” was just “Wild Thing” with a different vocal?

    • #72193
      glw
      Participant

      You’ve got to play “Wild Thing”. It’s a tradition or an old charter or something.

    • #72165
      Tim
      Participant

      In all fairness I also wrote ‘with or without you’ and I was only tuning up at the time (still a kick-ass B-line tho!)

      In my old band we covered Wild Thing by the Troggs, having learnt it I realised I had learnt quite a few other 60’s songs and probably 50% of the Troggs set.

    • #72200
      glw
      Participant

      The hideous Coldplay (“dinner party music”) recently had a hit with a song called “Talk”, the entire melody of which was taken note for note from Kraftwerk’s “Computer Love”. Apparently Chris “What stupid name can I give the next sprog?” Martin had written a crawly bum-lick letter to Ralf Hutter to ask permission, but it still irks me that people think it’s a Coldplay original.

    • #72179
      1bassleft
      Participant

      ps, and in all seriousness, I have been “ripped off” by the majors. Not even subconciously; just the bad luck of r’n’r being so derivative that (sooner or later) a famous band will come up with the same riff that Joe Unsigned has been playing for years.

      My song “I Can Take a Hint” had the bassline wholesale lifted by (of all people) Adam Clayton for the U2 song “With or Without You” two years later. Nothing I could do about it.

      Even better, although most people won’t know the signed act, was the case of a song called “Skunk” we did; largely based on my bassline. Nearly ten years on, I recorded off MTV a song by Biffy Clyro called “Only One Thing Springs to Mind”. The bassline, right at the end, is a note-for-note (same key etc) ripoff of “Skunk”. The guitarist and I fell about laughing when I stuck it in the tapedeck. They couldn’t possibly have heard “Skunk”, unless they happened to see one of our gigs. It’s just one of those things that proves there’s not a lot that’s new in guitar riffs.

    • #72181
      Michael
      Participant

      Vocal melody. I see.

      I know there are some that I always notice when i hear them, but I’ll be dammed if I can think of them now.

    • #72211
      1bassleft
      Participant

      [quote]i came across an ELO greatest hits folder, (old and dusty, hardly played)[/quote]

      Er-herrrm. And the “Thai Ladyboys” DVD belongs to a mate of yours, I suppose? 😆

      Weller’s the biggest nicker ever. Ought to call his next band The Kleptoes. You’re right about Start/Taxman but, even allowing for “David Watts” being a straight cover, many Jam songs reeked of Kinks, Small Faces etc.

      Elastica’s debut was riddled with lawsuits, particularly The Stranglers publishers couldn’t help but noticing the similarity of “Waking Up” to “No More Heroes” and “Connection” was similarly pursued by the publishers of Wire‘s “Three Girl Rhumba”.

      As Mike pionted uot in taht spelilng way of his, Harrison got whacked for “subconciously plagiarizing” The Chiffons’ “He’s So Fine” vocal melody for “My Sweet Lord”. He also got away with lifting the entire opening line “Something in the Way She Moves” from Apple Records signing, James Taylor. But he’s George Harrison, so I’ll forgive him most things.

    • #72199
      Michael
      Participant

      great thread…

      What did George Harrison nick from The Clfiton’s He’s So Fine for his My Sweet Lord.

      Spandau Ballet stole the riff from themselves on True and than used it again on Round and Round and everything else.

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