Bassleft is a big bollock

youngwasp · Got Rhythm Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 71

I have made my position as clear as it could possibly be – equipment produces 9/10ths of tone.

I have viewed perhaps 15 – 20 guitar sites that detail what guitar note is, what constitutes it and how it is achieved. EVERY SINGLE ONE without exception says exactly what I say.

You continually say otherwise and not once have you even attempted to supply one iota of detail, despite opportunity after opportunity. Like a Christian who ‘believes’ who is pressed to say supply details, no-one comes up with an answer as to what = nothing. ‘It’s all in the fingers’, is the glib response every time.

I too say that a pedal will NOT make you sound EXACTLY like any named guitarist, it being an approximation given the obvious variations of variables in the chain, guitar, pickups, strings etc etc, of the original.

What is very common is that you raise a point and when I respond you seem to forget/ignore that you initially raised it;

Lee said in the other thread;
‘And what you fail to understand is, it's only you me and Bass that are reading this thread,’

I said;
‘Exactly 48 hours ago the views held steady at 153, today, now, at the time of writing = 289.
The numbers unfortunately disprove your theory. Sorry.’

Then I am accused of;
‘Saying that 300-whatever people have viewed without posting; ergo, they all agree with you - that's one way of looking at it.’

Complete pants, I merely pointed out that it clearly was not ‘you me and Bass that are reading this thread’ – in fact the number stands now at 350. I did not say or imply anything about agreement whatsoever, JUST that 100’s of people were viewing the thread.

My position could not be clearer, I agree that a small percentage of guitar tone is evoked with the fingers in conjunction with the pick and have supplied copious detail, not just based upon my belief system but many others too.
Your position is clear too. You say one thing based upon a percentage you supplied, i.e. the fingers provide 9x more influence over tone than equipment. I ask you to detail what the fingers do that produce that? Nothing is supplied whatsoever, not one scrap, no tiny morsel of an idea or notion, zippo, zilch, just days of rhetoric, squirming and cries of being bored.

You now want to ‘…..take it bit by bit.’? You’ve already had the chance to do that in spades.

Well, quite simply no thanks. You are backed into a corner of your own making and it is up to you to get out of it – and no way is it a case of we simply disagree, I have supplied masses of detail, you have not supplied any.

Start supplying details of the magical 9x finger power, or you are blethering amongst yourselves.

The viewers of this entire situation await you to ‘put up, or shut up’ – there is no ‘bit by bit’.

lee_UK · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 11:51 am Post subject:

Its in the fingers youngwasp, and its 90% maybe even more, maybe 95%.
heres the breakdown

1. Pick action 12.45%
2. hammer ons 7.55%
3. hammer offs 10%
4. string bending 10%
5. string muting 10%
6. palm muting 10%
7. grinding the strings with the pick 2.5% (not including wrist action)
7a Trem arm control 7.5%
8. roll on's 10%
9. roll off's 10%
10. rocking the 3/5 sway switch backwards and forwards 5%
11. chorus-flanger, delay, reverb, sustain, and every other effect 5%

dont forget, please leave the dictionary alone when you reply, and please no 600 word quotes " ", you will obviously need the calculator, so get tapping and them come back to me with a sharp concise response.

youngwasp · Got Rhythm Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 71

How's does this create tone?

youngwasp · Got Rhythm Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 71

I fully understand your confusion now, you are unable to seperate technique from tone.

Ok.

youngwasp · Got Rhythm Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 71

Having taken two weeks out to oversee the final touches to my new extension on the house, I am back to work tomorrow.

As a serving police officer of 29 years, I retire in a little over a year at 49 where I hope to spend a lot more time enjoying such pursuits as the last week or so.

Thanks.

1bassleft · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 12:55 pm Post subject:

<Grimace> And look up the definition of "rant", while you're at it. OK, one more try:

There is a "tone" that comes from the mechanicals, of course. You do clearly use the words "hit" and "strike". Sure, if Famous-Muso's guitar is lying around plugged in and some nomark comes along and hits or strikes it, the sound will be remarkably similar to FM doing the same thing. Similarly, it's not beyond the wit of a solderer or PCB maker to change the sound of a Squier/Kustom into a good approximation of a LP/1959 Bassman being struck. If this really is THE point, well... Rolling Eyes

That is, as you say, why they're out there.

It is not the end of the story, not even (dratted %s) 90% of the story. We don't get paid to hit and strike guitars, we're all players here. I've lost count of the # of times Lee, myself, others(?) have said ('conceded' if it makes you feel better) this. Dial up the patch for "Layla" but play "Brown Eye'd Girl" (or vice versa) and, yes, anybody in the audience will look askance. However, dial up "Layla" and play it hitting-every-note-with-your-plec-at-same-force, plonking the fretting hand around and Joe Audience will down their pints quickly and move on.

There are vagaries of touch and a number of ways of ringing the note that are way beyond the pedal in real-life playing. With my old Laney Super, I strung a variety of 12A_7s across the preamp and gave top marks to a GE for both bass and (borrowed) guitar. Once the guitarist, a proper player like you lot, had a go I completely changed my mind. The Mullard bettered it (they cost a bomb) but it only showed up with technique applied. And the % (again!) was small, but these things are important if we as players can hear it.

Finally, speaking of "why don't players just buy a plank then?" Well, for starters, there's more to a nice guitar than what it sounds like. That Hondo II purchased in my youth, and that Lee never lets me forget about Razz

), the tone is the least of its problems. In any case, Richie Blackmore (in his Rainbow days), used to sneak off and swap his Strat for a "Satellite" copy before the ritual smashing of guitar onstage routine. He didn't use a "Blackmore's Strat Tone Pedal" to compensate. The audience didn't suddenly shout "what's that awful guitar tone?" It was business as usual, but if you were close enough to see the headstock it was good for a snigger.

youngwasp · Got Rhythm Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 71

[quote="lee_UK"]Its in the fingers youngwasp, and its 90% maybe even more, maybe 95%.
heres the breakdown

1. Pick action 12.45%
2. hammer ons 7.55%
3. hammer offs 10%
4. string bending 10%
5. string muting 10%
6. palm muting 10%
7. grinding the strings with the pick 2.5% (not including wrist action)
7a Trem arm control 7.5%
8. roll on's 10%
9. roll off's 10%
10. rocking the 3/5 sway switch backwards and forwards 5%
11. chorus-flanger, delay, reverb, sustain, and every other effect 5%

dont forget, please leave the dictionary alone when you reply, and please no 600 word quotes " ", you will obviously need the calculator, so get tapping and them come back to me with a sharp concise response.[/quote]

You complete and utter plonker Lee - the things you list above aren't CUMULATIVE.

Yes, I agree 100% that a hammer on will influence tone 10%, but that leaves 90% for your equipment. The effect of the hammer on is then not ADDED to that of the palm mute two bars later then the next hammer on. What you've typed above has simply endorsed EVERY word I've said.

Twit.

1bassleft · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 2:35 pm Post subject:

OK, move along people. There's nothing to see here, move along. Smile

1bassleft · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 2:41 pm Post subject:

and someone untie Lee from the chair; questioning's over for now. Tomorrow, the sound of police canteens emptying rapidly. Next year, the world...

lee_UK · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 4:55 pm Post subject:

Can i just add one thing? the % thing was a joke, somebody clearly stole the 9v PP9 from your humour pedal, thats the small brown one you use at the end of the pedal chain marked 'Anal' im not a twit, there is no need for insults as i have not insulted you, as bass said technique greatly effects tone, and please dont insult me again. ive just listed some things that effects tone.

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