with RMS output of amps, you have to remember that wattage is measured in a non-linear scale, therefore a 100w amp is only twice as loud as a 10w amp

I agree totally (and I was forgetting you have one of those nice Bi-valves, Lee). My little point was that, sometimes, a tech may do you a “favour” and replace your power valves. Of course, they wear out and this has to be done, but some nice old tubes/valves can fetch a fair bit of money in useable condition.

I took my amp + cab in to a firm because of a terrible, farty noise. They handed it back (several weeks late and after two pointless journeys) and told me “we’ve put brand new Svetlanas in, mate”

I had a shudder. What about the Mullards? “Thrown away”, apparently. The fartiness was still there but I sorted it when I replaced the offending speakers. The Svets sounded rubbish and I can’t help thinking that a needlessly replaced quad of Mullard EL34s might have been quite useful if the people hadn’t actually “thrown them away”

If your amp’s already fitted with the usual Russian/Chinese valves; disregard the above. If it’s got British or American glassware, keep an eye on sudden replacements for dubious reasons.

[quote=”1bassleft”]
A re-tube could be the worst thing you ever let your tech talk you into… :lol:[/quote]

Or the best thing, a change of valve brand can make a lot difference in an amp, American, British, Chinese, Eastern European, there are hundreds of different types out there and they all have their own sound characterists, I have a THD BI-Valve amp, which alows me to mix and match preamp and out put valves, and simply changing a pair of Svetlana EL84’s for a pair Harma valves, or even mixing the 2 (dont try this on a standard valve amp) has a subtle but definate difference in tone.

Enter the anorak…

“I may be a weak and feeble bass player, but I have the stomach of a guitar player, and an English one, to boot”

OK, that’s the worst paraphrase of Elizabeth 1st ever put on a guitar forum, but bear with me. I have my ops.

Nothing beats a competent guitarist through a good, valve amp. A good guitar valve amp is not a hybrid. A couple of 12AX7s in the preamp section might be OK for bass, but it just doesn’t do the deal for a good guitar sound, IMHO. For some reason, I’ve always liked bass through pre and power glassware but that’s nothing compared with lead/rhythm guitar.

It gets more anoraky… an 800 is better than a 900. Barking mad lesser-known names are a better deal than a “name brand”. A re-tube could be the worst thing you ever let your tech talk you into… I can feel my kagoul rustling 😆

Just a few points based on personal experience:

First, I spent several nights playing my strat through that very amp at medium to high volume (some guy had it set up in our practice space) and for a SS amp it didn’t sound too bad. I think maybe the EQ and 4 / 12 cabinet gave it some artificial warmth if that makes any sense.

Second, I’ll assume that rparker is referring to his Fender Twin as the best sounding Fender tube amp and not the best sounding of all tube amps. That being said, a friend recently picked up a slightly used Fender Hot Rod DeVille (60 watt 2/12) on ebay for around $500 that sounds great – I want one.

Third, I play lead guitar with a Marshall JCM 900 (a 100 watt half stack) that’s been nicely retubed and tweaked. Although a great amp, it can be all but buried in the mix by our rhythm player’s 150 watt Mesa half stack (we have the exact same celestion-loaded cabinets). It takes Duncan Hotrails and a Bos s GE-7 to cut through. Wattage can be an issue.

Fourth, NOTHING is better the sound of warm tubes in a smokey bar. The satisfaction of playing through a great amp far outweighs the extra $$$. The “cheap and loud” route of equipment buying is a dead end in more ways than one.

Do the right thing!

sounds like a cue for YoungWasp !! now theres a person that could bore for Britain, and has done so on here on many occasions, who remembers his 1200 word self styled monologues?, you just find your self reaching for the razors and gritting your teeth praying for him to stop…. oops, hope he doesnt look in here anymore, but he is an olympic gold medalist at ‘Anorakism’ .

Worth bearing in mind that a 100W amp is nowhere near twice as loud as a 50W amp. The ear doesn’t work like that. Somebody did put forward a reason once why a 100W valve amp sounds louder than a 100W SS amp. I’m not sure if it’s gospel, but thewre may be something in it. On request, I’ll bore everyone with Watts and Decibels and invite other anorak-scratchers to chime in 😆

You make some good points, i played an MG series amp, i think it was the 30watter and i thought it was quite good, obviously at a gig it might not sound too clever, but i still think they are quite good amps.

For what its worth, I have and play with various fender amps. MY twin is the best hands down all valve amp. I have a Marshall MG half stack and its a good amp but not even comparable with a valve amp sound. The effects are cool but my sons Fender Hot Rod 40w valve amp (groove tubes) in my opinion sounds better and equally loud for gigs.

100 watts of valve power is only a little louder than a 50w valve amp. 100w solid state amps such as the MG Marshall have the look of the big Marshall equipment but rest assured, its only a well dressed participant and by no means equal to a 50w valve amp if you like to play ZZtop, skynyrd, SRV etc.

My fender twin amp just got reworked by fender to replace some scrath pots and all tubes (what a chunk of change that was) but I’ve had it since 1964 and it aint leaving my side. I’ve asked my wife to bury it with me.

MG series isnt that bad, but i agree it wont match up to an all valve amp, if i were you id wait til i had the cash for a Marshall, consider the resale value too, if 5 yrs down the road you want to sell your rig, which will be the easiest to sell? the fender or marshall.
Sell your Grandmother, get that Marshall DSL, you know it makes sense.

Is FM Frontman? dont know, ive not heard of this model either, is it valve? solid state? or a mix? i suppose the best thing is to plug in and play it, if your asking is $500 worth it? i guess any Fender 100watt head and 4×12 cab is worth $500 but can you get a Marshall Head and 4×12 cab in your part of the world for that? if you can i know which one i’d go for.