Guitarsite Forums Guitar Discussion Guitar My first post!

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  • #21877
    virtualtoad
    Participant

    Hi guys, this is my first post… I own a little effect manufacturing company called ToadWorks, and to be perfectly honest, I joined this forum to get a bead on current trends, likes, dislikes, etc. in the marketplace (regardless of what some of it’s members think, Harmony Central isn’t the beginning & end of the world :).

    I won’t spam, and I might contribute only occasionally (running a business takes time!), so please don’t flame me when I post… my posts will either be on-topic, or they will tell you how to get free stuff (and let’s face it, we all love free stuff.)

    So, in a word, hi!

Viewing 31 reply threads
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    • #67490
      lee_UK
      Participant

      Ive noticed that with Multi-FX units, the distortions are always fizzy and lifeless, if i use my ME50 i always use my ProCat Turbo-rat for the fuzzy bits, hit the toe switch and it sounds like the Hoover dam crumbling into meltdown after a simultaneous Japanese torpedo and German Stuker bomber attack! well maybe a little bit less fuzzy, i sometimes get a bit carried away. 😆

    • #75609
      1bassleft
      Participant

      Back on topic.

      I noticed that Ryan (Toad)’s products are single-use pedals for a specific purpose, not the multi-FX type. Now, I’m only a bass player, but I’ve gone off the “99 patches” unit – certainly for live work. My guitarist bought the Boss variant of the Roland VG8 or 88 type rack (don’t ask me for the Boss model #) some while back, but now it also gathers dust. If he uses anything, it’s a rather good valve OD (more later).

      For me, I simply want to step on/off a really good OD, and similarly a flange/phaser/synthythingy. That’s it, really. In my limited exp, the multis do a rotten job of OD – losing the bottom end in partic. My guitarist has a horrendously expensive Matchless Dirtbox, but it is God’s own distortion. Better than the V-twin, and the least bottom-loss I know of.

      I can see the point of the “Thinline Tele, Bassman, 2×15” type of patch in recording, but maybe they should be bought by studios and/or regular recorders? I can’t use them at a gig but, hey, I can rarely play more than one string at a time so maybe it’s just me. What’re your ops?

    • #67502
      lee_UK
      Participant

      to the thousands who are interested, this Tennis match has now moved to ‘Bassleft1 is a big bollock’ posting (centre court).
      No rush to get there im sure this one will run and run.

    • #75650
      youngwasp
      Member

      No need.

      Without wishing to appear that I am beating you up any further, it simply wouldn’t fair for those that have followed this thread that don’t know any better, to believe that accomplished guitarists wield The Force to evoke incredible tone.

      Tone is unquestionably, irrefutably, undeniably, with no doubt whatsoever obtained 9/10th from equipment. There is no magical, mystical way of playing that only BB King can do, or Eric Clapton, or Kirk Hammett, or David Gilmour or anybody else. They move their hands up and down the neck just like everybody else.

      This is easily proved for any doubters – the easiest way is via the internet. Go to the search engine of your choice, type ‘Guitar Tone’ and read as much as you dare to be convinced. Can’t be bothered?

      Here, I’ve done it for you, taking one at random;

      http//www.penmachine.com/musicpages/guitartone.html

      THE SOURCE OF TONE

      There are 20 points listed. Nineteen of those are equipment related, the last one being;

      ‘Of course, the way the guitarist plays, including whether with fingers or a pick on the strumming hand, how he or she places and moves fingers on the neck, where……..etc.’

      With this in mind – if there were other elements that were player based – these would be listed, they aren’t.

      So I apologise Lee, I was wrong. Technique influences tone only one 1/20th. I understand that having your map of the world forcibly reshaped is no fun, but that is the way things are.

    • #75614
      lee_UK
      Participant

      OK lets take this over the Bass’s post ‘Bassleft1 is a big bollock’
      and we will take it bit by bit.

    • #75662
      youngwasp
      Member

      [quote=”Farino”]What was your question in the first place? I’d also like to take a jab at it but I’m having a little trouble determining what it even was.[/quote]

      The question is very clearly laid out in three sections of the thread, which if you cannot find then you will have missed many important points. Lee is obviously very keen to get this all to go away as quickly as possible.

      I will copy and paste the question once more, BUT you must understand that you have to have a core grasp of the key elements that have been debated thus before you wade in.
      Lee is emphatic that TONE is derived from 9/10ths of what a player does with his/her fingers and only 1/10th has to do with pickups, guitar, amp etc etc. I believe the reverse, TONE is determined 9/10ths what you HOLD in your hands and what it is plugged into. I have asked many times for Lee to detail what he means (see the question below), but he refuses to answer.

      As I have said, not reading the complete thead will leave lacking in information though.

      The copy and paste;

      I have posed a specific question and you have not even had a go at answering it.

      List the ACTUAL ELEMENTS of playing that make up TONE (apart from the ones I have already that make up the 10%). Detail exactly what you mean??

    • #67492
      Farino
      Participant

      What was your question in the first place? I’d also like to take a jab at it but I’m having a little trouble determining what it even was.

    • #75620
      youngwasp
      Member

      [quote=”lee_UK”]And what you fail to understand is, it’s only you me and Bass that are reading this thread, everybody else went home days ago…. did’nt you notice? Hello.. anybody there?? lol[/quote]

      Exactly 48 hours ago the views held steady at 153, today, now, at the time of writing = 289.

      The numbers unfortunately disprove your theory. Sorry.

      YOU added a response that plonked the thread firmly back in the public eye, it was all set to simply slide into obscurity, you even asked me to reply – YOU did this, not me.

      p.s. Have a go at answering my question instead of beating yourself up all the time.

    • #75646
      1bassleft
      Participant

      Out of respect to Ryan, who started this topic on a completely different thread, I have put up a new topic.

      “Bassleft is a big bollock” is ready for continuation of this thing. Here on this thread, we’re returning you to pedal trends and opinions…

    • #75675
      lee_UK
      Participant

      And what you fail to understand is, it’s only you me and Bass that are reading this thread, everybody else went home days ago…. did’nt you notice? Hello.. anybody there?? 😆

    • #75644
      youngwasp
      Member

      What is most strange is that both you and 1bass are prepared to type paragraphs of text but not answer my simple question.

      This in itself speaks volumes and EVERYONE here can see that.

    • #75623
      lee_UK
      Participant

      i dont feel im backing out on anything, i still stand by my 90-10 statement, i still think a lot of the time effects are used to hide sloppy technique, and you realy cant sound like Eric Clapton when you buy his pedal, im just bored with going over the same thing, lets agree to disagree, and you dont suprise me when when you say you do a prog rock set, i bet you pack out the venues with your genesis/yes/ELP set, those records were real foot tappers, and there is nothing like hearing a 50 minute guitar solo (in its context of course).
      So i think its time for bed..
      (still no offence intended)

    • #75616
      youngwasp
      Member

      I acknowledge your compromised position and the fact you struggle to compile any convincing reply. It is an extremely difficult question to answer and most people in here would be unwilling to tackle it. YOU are the one that came back and asked me to respond, I did, now you duck out, but I understand why. You quoted the figures and ‘facts’, they were challenged and you are unable to back them up. My own personal belief is that you read my response and have no clue how to reply.

      Not comfortable losing face, but put this one down to experience.

      One final point that I need to clarify. Using effects has made me tighten my technique and definitely broadened my range and ability. Why, how? There is no set we play that doesn’t demand a change of instruments mid-song. We do a 70’s prog rock set with 4 changes from electric to acoustic (during the ELP/Genesis/Yes section), a step on the pedal and I switch from electric to acoustic patch – I simply wouldn’t have time to physically change instruments. If I play any wrong notes, these are instantly highlighted – it is just me, nothing is masked or smothered. This is why I use effects, ease of use, not to hide behind. Jimmy Page used a double-neck specifically to play Stairway for this very reason, both necks were in reach without changing instruments – the same is true for me only I do it another way.

      As for being offended, I live on mainland UK not Tracey Island. I control my own internal state not other people and certainly not via the pages of a chatroom.

    • #75624
      lee_UK
      Participant

      To be honest your post/response looks long, i cant even be bothered to read it, im slowly losing the will to live, too many quotes ” ” too many dictionary phrases, and 98.76% (made up the the spur of the moment) of the members of this forum feel the same.
      Any chance of tucking this one up and saying goodnight to it?
      Still no offence intended.

    • #67383
      youngwasp
      Member

      [quote=”lee_UK”]I played a Gibson Lucille in a Fender Valve amp at a guitar show last year, i played all 4 of the notes that BB king plays, and guess what? i sounded nothing like him. I have a Gibson Les Paul, and a Marshall valve amp and i sound nothing like Peter Green, neither can i sound like Jimmy Page, and as for the THD amp, to my ears it had the best tone and that tone suited my style of playing, Gary the bass player played on it after me and it sounded awful, he didnt know how to control the overdrive from the amp and played a lot of mushy notes, i stick by my earlier quote 90% in the fingers 10% in the amp.
      Have a good sleep on that one, then come back tommorow with your dictionary and quotes and try to rip it to pieces, im sure you will do quite well, sounds like you have had plenty of practice.
      (still no offence intended in all this)[/quote]

      For those who cannot be bothered to read the entire thread to catch up, here is the précised version;

      We were discussing effects processors/pedals and their benefits/downsides. Lee then originally said (I quote) ‘…when i think you will agree, that 90% of their sound comes from their technique, and not a little red box with a 9v battery.)
      I then countered as I believe the opposite – tone is 10% technique and 90% a combination of all the elements that make up their rig (pick thickness, pickups, guitar, amp, etc etc). I even used the example taken from another thread were Lee said that the amp he was testing produced unbelievable tone.

      I then quantified exactly what I meant with numerous detailed examples and I ultimately concluded with the question –

      All you have to do know is list exactly how that is achieved and to use Lee’s example once more – what do Metallica do to produce tone with technique? Enough sabre rattling, posturing, credential flourishing – stop waffle, be specific – detail exactly what you mean?? In other words, specifically what do players do with their hands to influence 9/10ths of the final TONE?

      1bassleft, being unable to answer the question I posed, threw in his usual flannel, this time about handbags and typewriting monkeys. Okay, that was him flailing in the corner attempting to appear intelligent, but in actuality, it would have benefited him more simply to have kept quiet as it underlined his ineptitude.

      I realise you (Lee) have attempted a comeback with ‘something’, but the question has not even been touched – you have ignored it totally. Where is the detail about what players do to evoke 9/10ths of tone with their fingers? You simply respond with examples of your playing experiences, summing up with (another quote) – ‘i stick by my earlier quote 90% in the fingers 10% in the amp.’

      I agree that players can influence the final tonal qualities with angle and severity of pick/finger attack, but this a very small part of the overall. I even used the new Crossroads pedal to highlight that Clapton’s tone/s can be had by simply plugging into one – obviously this is not EXACTLY the same, but very close and certainly not just 10%.

      Since the inception of chatrooms where people can exchange their ideas and beliefs, it a common theme for those unable to answer a question, to respond with all kind of semantic chicanery that is designed to appear to seem to tackle the subject matter, but actually talks around it and never actually gives an answer.

      I have posed a specific question and you have not even had a go at answering it.

      List the ACTUAL ELEMENTS of playing that make up TONE (apart from the ones I have already that make up the 10%). Detail exactly what you mean??

    • #67371
      lee_UK
      Participant

      I played a Gibson Lucille in a Fender Valve amp at a guitar show last year, i played all 4 of the notes that BB king plays, and guess what? i sounded nothing like him. I have a Gibson Les Paul, and a Marshall valve amp and i sound nothing like Peter Green, neither can i sound like Jimmy Page, and as for the THD amp, to my ears it had the best tone and that tone suited my style of playing, Gary the bass player played on it after me and it sounded awful, he didnt know how to control the overdrive from the amp and played a lot of mushy notes, i stick by my earlier quote 90% in the fingers 10% in the amp.
      Have a good sleep on that one, then come back tommorow with your dictionary and quotes and try to rip it to pieces, im sure you will do quite well, sounds like you have had plenty of practice.
      (still no offence intended in all this)

    • #67342
      youngwasp
      Member

      So let me get this right, having asked me a question (Wasp, you surely can’t mean that, given a ‘red special’ and a top-boost AC30, 9 out of ten guitarists will sound like Brian May ?) – which I answered in detail, I then asked you then to specify exactly what you mean? Instead of simply answering, the forum is again treated to more meaningless waffling diatribe and not the glimmer of a coherent response aimed at supporting your stance.

      This is all so very common, someone makes a claim and when challenged to back it up, it’s all smoke and mirrors and this is just another shining example.

      However, having reread your reply (to try and make sense of it) – you did answer in the first sentence, I quote ‘Coolio, Wasp. I had no idea’, which sums up your position perfectly, it was a difficult question though.

      Conversing with a primate will undoubtedly be the only time you get to win a debate, give your Lemur a pat from me big guy.

    • #67370
      1bassleft
      Participant

      Coolio, Wasp. I had no idea that my MOR post would have you skipping your toast and searching “dictionary.com”, so apols for that. Apols also to Ryan, whose thread is in danger of becoming hijacked into a handbaggy bore.

      I have no confusion with tone and technique even though, in my case, both can be criticized. Nobody has the monopoly on confusion, Wasp – you seem to be stating that opposable thumbs are all it takes. Reminds me of that argument Given an infinite number of monkeys, one of them will type the full script to “Hamlet”, but you push the envelope by saying “Use a modeller, and you only need one monkey”

      As said, I’m middle o’ road, and also have the handicap of just being a bass player. Still, to use an example that even guitarists have heard of, let’s say I have to do a couple of Weather Report numbers in the set.

      Do I buy a Jazz, pull all the frets out, lash epoxy all over the board and dislocate my thumbs or does a good pedal come in? Of course it does. And I accept that I’m making a compromise (worthwhile). Let’s suppose I’m a plec player, and never bothered to learn finger-style or a bit of thumb. Should I improve my technique, or step on patch #75?

      I would answer that Q, but my pet Lemur has just come up with a TV idea for twelve celebs to be placed on an island and see if anyone cops off. Thank goodness for XP and Microsoft Word. 🙂

    • #67387
      youngwasp
      Member

      Having been rushed this morning when I responded (see above), I would hate for you to be even more confused than you already appear to be.
      The dictionary definition refers to the word TONE, the definition being divided up into different areas and that is how it relates to the music association and the definition does not relate to the word ‘music’.

      A couple of final points;

      There is a new pedal out developed in conjunction with Eric Clapton called ‘Crossroads’. Plug into this and you sound just like Eric – NOT play like Eric, SOUND like Eric, i.e. the same tone. It isn’t marketed on sound 1/10th like him.

      Finally, lee_uk summed it up beautifully in a thread further down entitled Gear Brag and to directly quote him

      ‘…..which one came out on top?? by far?? yep the THD, the tone was unbeliveable, there was a portrait of Baden Powell above the stage…..’

      Well, if the amp produces unbelievable tone and is just 1/10th of the overall, then surely the 9/10th’s made up for by the guitarist completely nullifies a good amp? If that is true then all a good guitarist has to do is evoke the mystical 9/10ths and ANY amp will sound unbelievable – right?

      All you have to do know is list exactly how that is achieved and to use Lee’s example once more – what do Metallica do to produce tone with technique?

      Enough sabre rattling, posturing, credential flourishing – stop waffling, be specific – detail exactly what you mean??

    • #67379
      youngwasp
      Member

      I acknowledge your confusion; many people are unable to separate technique from tone.

      You highlight the May example and I quote you, ‘… you surely can’t mean that, given a ‘red special’ and a top-boost AC30, 9 out of ten guitarists will sound like Brian May?’
      Well to answer this (although you have already done that), you say SOUND like Brian May and not PLAY like Brian May.
      As anthropomorphic creatures, we manipulate the strings with our four fingers and a thumb, there being only a finite number of ways of playing guitar – and all of these techniques are learnable. The way many ‘famous/recorded’ guitarists play is instantly recognisable by their style/technique (the way in which they manipulate the strings), in other words they lengthen and shorten, bend and attack the string/s as the see fit (wah wah and corresponding picking hand movements not withstanding). The string/s can only be held/released in a certain position and struck no matter who the player. The resulting output of that sound is then shaped solely by the guitar’s wood, pickups, string gauge, pick thickness, any effects in-situ, amp etc etc etc.
      Lee_uk mentioned the fact that people continually pose questions about how particular players rigs are set up to get ‘that particular sound/tone’? Well, where are the answers that detail that player’s TECHNIQUE which achieve it – i.e. ‘Kirk Hammett uses XYZ technique when playing to get his specific tone’. If it was that easy, then all tone related questions would be easily be answered via these pages, but they aren’t because tone is NOT produced by our hands, instead by what we hold in them and what it is plugged into.

      To take this one stage further, look at the dictionary definition (for this example I have used dictionary.com, a straight copy and paste)

      Music

      a. The quality or character of sound.
      b. The characteristic quality or timbre of a particular instrument or voice.

      As you can see, this bears no reference to technique whatsoever.

      Shortly after I bought my GR20 synth, I came up with an idea that we used for about a week onstage for just one number. We finished with an old Genesis number Firth Of Fifth and the curtain came down, it opened quickly with me sat on a stool with a telecaster, our rhythm guitarist entered stage left wearing glasses, a jacket and a jumbo acoustic. We then went into Duelling Banjos (from the movie Deliverance) – the point being I was playing the banjo part using the relevant patch on the GR20 – the tone at that moment WAS 100% that of a banjo – it had nothing to do with my style of playing, although obviously I had to first learn the piece and alter my technique slightly to accommodate the additional nuances imposed by the tracking of the synth.

      I am unsure where you go with your, ‘I think you’re doing yourself a disservice. The fact that you make effects work for you does not (IMHO) mean that the pedalbox has done all the work and you just play as per normal.’?
      This has not been stated nor implied (in my opinion). My ‘pedalbox’ allows me to create the sounds the piece demands and that is why I use it, just like attempting a Rammstein cover with a ukulele simply wouldn’t work. I still obviously have to hit acceptable notes and chords in a suitable key and at the appropriate moment – I am essentially still a guitarist if I am using an electric 12-string or a Variax emulating one. Swapping to another instrument is really no different to stomping a pedal on a board – both actions change the tone produced, purists may cringe at the latter, but there is no real-time comparison on the part of the audience, they are only aware of what the amplification is throwing their way and if it works, it works.

      Put Brian May’s rig into anyone’s hands and get them to hit a string = that is May’s TONE – NOT his technique. So yes, I most emphatically do mean SOUND like – NOT play like.

      If you can list the elements of actually playing that make up tone (apart from the ones I have already that make up the 10%), then I will agree. Angus hits a G5, the equipment produces the tone, not him.

    • #67365
      1bassleft
      Participant

      98.2% of statistics are made up on the spot – Vic Reeves

    • #67361
      1bassleft
      Participant

      “No offence intended”, “No offence taken” often reminds me of “With the greatest possible respect” or “The Right Honourable gentleman” – cavalry vs schiltron. So, in comes Bass on the three-legged nag, “Plato”.

      Tricky business, this “%” lark. But I do have a terribly anal head for maths. Wasp, you surely can’t mean that, given a ‘red special’ and a top-boost AC30, 9 out of ten guitarists will sound like Brian May 😯 ❓ I think you’re doing yourself a disservice. The fact that you make effects work for you does not (IMHO) mean that the pedalbox has done all the work and you just play as per normal. You must have the licks naturally to cover an artist. I think Lee means “Chang!!!” doesn’t suddenly sound like Jimi, EVH, Zapp etc just because you’ve pulled on a modeller’s knob.

      Equally, a Stagg Tele through a Behringer combo will make Angus sound a bit “different” to the usual. Knowing Joe Audience, though, I bet my bottom that they recognize Angus on the Stagg quicker than an average player with factory-correct-settings SG going through a blahblahblah.

      This is why I got slightly impatient with someone here who did a “what wireless does Angus use?” post. Totally irrelevant and pointless. There are pedals and settings on the modeller that cut down on the workload for those about to cover, but it’s no substitute for technique.

      Thinking about it, it’s very unusual for a big cheese to have religiously stuck to the same chain throughout their career. And yet, it still sounds like them. Taking Gilmour as an example (excellent player, somewhat underrated), it’s a dead cert that his rack for a “Division Bell” tour is nothing like that for “Animals”, even though he might have to play “sheep” on the later tour. He makes it work because it’s 1% FX, 5% technique and 666% subtly different, fresher, and not stuck in a time-warp.

      Like I say, I’m a maths wizz 😆

    • #67359
      youngwasp
      Member

      [quote=”lee_UK”]Like i say, im not having a go, if effects are your thing then thats fine, i just find that you can become dependent on effects, a good delay and infinate sustain can hide a lot of sloppy guitar playing, but you can get creative with it too. The burden i said is meant to be carrying all this stuff around while you are gigging, batteries running low, effects packing up, short patch cables going faulty and it all has to be set up in the correct order, im not critising anybody for using all this stuff, it just seems to be a shame that all a lot of guys talk about is what effects does Metallica use? what delay does Brian may use? How do i get a sound like Slash? when i think you will agree, that 90% of their sound comes from their technique, and not a little red box with a 9v battery.
      No offence intended on my earlier post.[/quote]

      I certainly have taken no offence.

      Covering mistakes is not something I would consider to be a priorityand certainly not the main reason to purchase an effect. I am also a bit unsure what you mean by ‘carrying all this stuff around’ – my GT6 lives in its own carrying bag, comes out of the back of the van, through a door and onto the stage – hardly the equivalent of a 50kg rucksack then up the side of Ben Nevis! As for battery power (and as I have solely quoted the GT6 throughout for live work) – the GT6 has no battery compartment = no batteries, I plug straight into the unit then into the PA/whatever system we are using = no patch cables.

      The reason people ask about a guitarist’s ‘sound’ is because that is what they want to sound like – and no, I do not agree that it is 90% technique. You quote Brian May as an example, the main reason he sounds like he does is because of the very specific amp and homemade guitar setup he uses with its unique switching system.
      I believe tone is 10% technique and 90% equipment = the reason Burns have made a copy of The Red Special and Vox an amp, is because that combination allows you to virtually acquire the ‘tone’.
      The last time I saw Pink Floyd live, I watched in awe at Gilmour play, BUT he ONLY achieved that sound because of the HUGE array of effects he was plugged into. Yes of course, he is a master of space and phrasing, but Gilmour sounds like Gilmour because of a great many 9v batteries and little red boxes – on the other hand, I use just one gold box and no batteries.
      You could argue that we all ‘rely’ on things hanging together whilst we play, we rely on string not breaking = I have broken several whilst playing live, I had a valve amp = it died twice whilst playing live.

      Effects are not a dependency, they are part and parcel of the modern genre. Every strat owner manipulates the sound every time they reach for the whammy bar – is this a mistake masking technique designed to hide their bum notes?

      Yes yes – some players hide behind racks of flashing lights, but many do not.

    • #67340
      1bassleft
      Participant

      Toad, let me add my welcome here 🙂 . I had a look via Steve’s Music at the Rattler, John Bull and Mr Ed pedals.

      WRT the latest posts, I don’t think Toadworks products are really about the “patch 99 = Superlead channel II into single 4×12 w Mayer Fuzz” route. As the Toad says, made by humans, not Motorola.

      HST, these op-amps and silicon pedals are not usually my thing either. Toad, I know you’ll have most of the competition covered, but here’s an intriguing smallie you may want to look at (he interests me). Dave Hall seems to only sell his pedals (search “DHA”) on ebay.co.uk but you might take a look. Yes, I know he uses a marker pen on his cases but the internals are worth a scrute. Have a look at his completed listings; he used to show a “cover off” shot, but he’s gone coy nowadays.

      I’m a fan of the dual-gain, 12AX7 based overdrive pedal, but am I becoming extinct? I read that the Mesa V-Twin is no longer produced. Is this Fleeb-seller’s hype? If it is true, I’m not mega-surprised. It’s pricey and not particularly good enough for the money (like a lot of current Mesa product). The Matchless Dirtbox is, however, totally superb. It is also expensive and, when a transformer flaked, there was yet more “ownership changed hands” hoops to jump through. When it works, though… aye carumba.

      I’m very tempted by the DHA. Even with the box-off shots, I only have a hazy idea because I don’t look at the spaghetti and instantly understand it. In theory, though, a nice design. Take the gain from the 1st AX7 and, if not barking enough, stomp in the second. True bypass, switchable Ge or Si clipping, 3 band eq…

      One thing (as a bassist, but I wish guitarists had this too) I’d like is a true-bypass parallel output. Like the Tech 21 Sansamp. Obviously, I get annoyed when my bass disappears as soon as I step on the OD, but there’s only the one guitar in our band. I get just as annoyed when he steps into fizz-bomb territory and all the “rhythm” sound has gone. I get around it by using a Nobels 4-splitter to make sure I always have a dry feed.

      ps, my “patch 99” multi is gathering dust, and ought to be loosened on the fleeb-hordes soon.

    • #67373
      lee_UK
      Participant

      Like i say, im not having a go, if effects are your thing then thats fine, i just find that you can become dependent on effects, a good delay and infinate sustain can hide a lot of sloppy guitar playing, but you can get creative with it too. The burden i said is meant to be carrying all this stuff around while you are gigging, batteries running low, effects packing up, short patch cables going faulty and it all has to be set up in the correct order, im not critising anybody for using all this stuff, it just seems to be a shame that all a lot of guys talk about is what effects does Metallica use? what delay does Brian may use? How do i get a sound like Slash? when i think you will agree, that 90% of their sound comes from their technique, and not a little red box with a 9v battery.
      No offence intended on my earlier post.

    • #67358
      youngwasp
      Member

      I thought about your response and the questions you raise.

      The original thread was started by the Man From ToadWorks, who is researching current effects trends and to answer your point about whatever happened to the idea of plugging a guitar straight in to an amp – well have we ever ‘just’ done that? I don’t know of any amp that is simply a box with a volume knob, for we shape, mould and manipulate the sounds we produce with bass, treble, reverb, or whatever the amp (however old) has installed. These are all effects regardless of how you care to define it.

      Cost of course is an issue here as you emulate virtually any sound now all originating from one guitar. To illustrate this, I recently laid a laminate flooring in the new porch I built. To all intents and purposes, this looks just like antique floorboards – but it isn’t, it is a printed facsimile and unless you examine it closely, you can’t tell. In direct comparison, I wanted sax on at least two tracks I was producing at home. The cost of actually hiring a sax player was prohibitive and not practical, so I bought a Roland GR20 guitar synth and used the breathy sax patch and played the part myself. I mixed it down onto CD and played it back to my wife – she asked where I had found a sax player? She had no idea that it was me until I told her and she had been a professional singer for 9 years!

      I tend to view music as a process, a machine if you like, parts revolve, elements fuse and combine and out pops a product, so to say I ‘rely’ on effects may be true but it’s certainly not burdensome. This is like saying having to use the brake in a car is a pain every time you want it to stop. I too try to keep effects to minimum, be it if I am recording at home (hence the Pandora and Pod – I agree neither are meant for anything much else and it was never my intention to imply they might be), or live (hence the GT6).

      So to counter your final point, whilst there isn’t a digital effects unit that can simulate the characteristics of an overdriven valve amp – that’s fine if that is the only sound you ever want – but get your valve amp to simulate what my GT6 can.

      The market is awash with effects units and it is a very lucrative business for that is exactly what players want – variation.

    • #67350
      lee_UK
      Participant

      [quote=”youngwasp”]I own quite a few bits and pieces when it comes to effects and I find that without any doubt that given the desert island scenario of taking just one unit, it would be my Boss GT6, this giving me the closest I can imagine to the perfect unit (not withstanding the new GT8). However, Boss lowering the price of the GT8 to considerably less than the GT6 was new, will make the secondhand market cringe a bit as you are left in the dilemma of if you want to upgrade, having to sell your 6 very very cheap as people will no way buy your’s when they can pick up a new 8 for just a little more.

      With the tremendous upsurge in guitaring interest, the effects market has exploded to match – and originally I bought a Korg Pandora PX4 which for what it was, is very good. This of course is very limited and I then got a Line 6 Kidney Bean (Pod), which highlighted what in my opinion is the biggest problem with effects processors. Many claim to have say 200 effects/patches/call them what you will, BUT at least half are virtually the same. The beauty of the PX4 is that each patch is different, the Pod is let down that it is difficult to distinguish half the presets from each other.

      I also have a Boss 864 8 track recorder and the built-in effects are exceptional – very good range of variations. Add to this, my Line 6 Uber Metal pedal and I can just about get every basic guitar tweaked sound I can imagine.

      My dream unit would be a model called ‘Flagship’ – this would be an armour plated unit (weight is very UNimportant to me) – I place build quality very high on my demand list. It would be encassed in heavy duty rubber on both ends.
      This would produce acoustically everything all Line 6 Variax models do, have the 99 patches from my Boss 864 (plus the Melissa patch from my Pandora), Wah pedal, echo, 5 minute phrase trainer (incremented in 10 second bites), plus every effect from the Roland GR20 guitar synth. Forget any amp modelling, that is simply a lot of old pants.
      It would come with an INCLUDED power supply unit and a 5 year unconditional warranty and a carrying bag, retailing at £500/$940.

      Of course, I expect to be the proud owner of a ‘Toadworks Flagship’ with 24 months.

      Make it so.[/quote]

      Wow, whatever happened to the idea of plugging a guitar straight in to an amp, and then overdriving it? im not having a go at you but i find a reliability of effects a real burden, i try to keep my effects to a minimum. But i suppose its down the the kind of music you play, where would the Edge be without his Delay? And i dont think the PX4 was meant as a mutieffects tool for plugging into an amp in the same way you would use a Boss GT6, its meant more for practicing on headphones, playing along to pre-set song styles in different keys, hence its size, the Pod was meant as a recording tool, not realy for live work although some people do use it for that, IMO there isnt a digital effects unit that can realy simulate the characteristics of an overdriven valve amp.

    • #67380
      youngwasp
      Member

      I own quite a few bits and pieces when it comes to effects and I find that without any doubt that given the desert island scenario of taking just one unit, it would be my Boss GT6, this giving me the closest I can imagine to the perfect unit (not withstanding the new GT8). However, Boss lowering the price of the GT8 to considerably less than the GT6 was new, will make the secondhand market cringe a bit as you are left in the dilemma of if you want to upgrade, having to sell your 6 very very cheap as people will no way buy your’s when they can pick up a new 8 for just a little more.

      With the tremendous upsurge in guitaring interest, the effects market has exploded to match – and originally I bought a Korg Pandora PX4 which for what it was, is very good. This of course is very limited and I then got a Line 6 Kidney Bean (Pod), which highlighted what in my opinion is the biggest problem with effects processors. Many claim to have say 200 effects/patches/call them what you will, BUT at least half are virtually the same. The beauty of the PX4 is that each patch is different, the Pod is let down that it is difficult to distinguish half the presets from each other.

      I also have a Boss 864 8 track recorder and the built-in effects are exceptional – very good range of variations. Add to this, my Line 6 Uber Metal pedal and I can just about get every basic guitar tweaked sound I can imagine.

      My dream unit would be a model called ‘Flagship’ – this would be an armour plated unit (weight is very UNimportant to me) – I place build quality very high on my demand list. It would be encassed in heavy duty rubber on both ends.
      This would produce acoustically everything all Line 6 Variax models do, have the 99 patches from my Boss 864 (plus the Melissa patch from my Pandora), Wah pedal, echo, 5 minute phrase trainer (incremented in 10 second bites), plus every effect from the Roland GR20 guitar synth. Forget any amp modelling, that is simply a lot of old pants.
      It would come with an INCLUDED power supply unit and a 5 year unconditional warranty and a carrying bag, retailing at £500/$940.

      Of course, I expect to be the proud owner of a ‘Toadworks Flagship’ with 24 months.

      Make it so.

    • #67382
      virtualtoad
      Participant

      [quote=”SB”]Hey ToadWorks,

      You now have a link on VintAxe.com. Hopefully I’ll send a little traffic your way. Good lookin’ pedals, good luck with your biz. SB[/quote]

      sweet, thanks!

    • #67381
      SB
      Participant

      Hey ToadWorks,

      You now have a link on VintAxe.com. Hopefully I’ll send a little traffic your way. Good lookin’ pedals, good luck with your biz. SB

    • #67372
      virtualtoad
      Participant

      [quote=”Michael”]Hey toad,

      I first heard about ToadWorks on the 9412 rock station. Good to see you here!

      – Mike[/quote]

      REALLY? Wow, I guess that DID pay off 🙂 Wasn’t sure how long to continue that, or how much impact it was having… it was a good experiment though.

    • #67388
      Michael
      Participant

      Hey toad,

      I first heard about ToadWorks on the 9412 rock station. Good to see you here!

      – Mike

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